(Review) BtVS Season 9: Spike: A Dark Place part I
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Two posts in one day!!
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Posted by: StephenT (
Posted at: 28th August 2012 17:36 (UTC)
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If there's one thing Spike is good at, it's re-inventing himself. I imagine that extends to his musical tastes as much as anything.
Johnny Rotten of the 'Pistols apparently used to wear a t-shirt saying "I hate Pink Floyd". They were seen as the epitome of stuffy, pretentious, boring and over-intellectual art-school musicians, compared to the working-class garage band ethos of punk, where actually knowing how to play the guitar was kind of a liability.
But then again, Spike like to see himself as a real rebel, not just a poseur rebel - so maybe he continued to like Pink Floyd even after they stopped being cool.
The sun won't hurt Spike in space as long as he stays in the shadow of the ship - or for that matter if they're still on the dark side of the Moon. It's only direct sunlight that kill vampires.
Maybe the hijackers don't want to leave litter (vampire dust) on the Moon? :)
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Posted by: erimthar (
Posted at: 28th August 2012 18:58 (UTC)
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The way you can tell a real punk from a poseur is that the real punk would respond with "Don't tell me what I'm allowed to like and not like, you wanker."
I can understand... I like both the Sex Pistols and Pink Floyd, myself.
They seem to still be on the light side of the moon as of the end of the comic, but I guess it would depend on where they let him out. If their intent is to kill Spike, why not just throw him out now instead of waiting to get into space?
Demons just can't resist being cruel to their victims, I guess, fortunately for Spike.
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Posted by: StephenT (
Posted at: 28th August 2012 19:55 (UTC)
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I actually got the impression on first reading that they were keeping Spike as a hostage to ensure the bugs' compliance. Though the text doesn't really support that explicitly.
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Posted by: TimeTravellingBunny (
Posted at: 28th August 2012 21:21 (UTC)
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Actually, Johnny Rotten/John Lydon has explained that he likes Pink Floyd. http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/fe
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Posted by: StephenT (
Posted at: 28th August 2012 22:38 (UTC)
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To be fair, he does say he changed his mind after he actually met Dave Gilmour and got on well with him. and aged 35 years. :) (I think Lydon and Rotten are pretty dissimilar characters, rather like Spike and William Pratt...)
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Posted by: TimeTravellingBunny (
Posted at: 28th August 2012 23:02 (UTC)
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He changed his mind on them as blokes. But he admits he always liked (at least some) of their music, like The Dark Side of the Moon. He's also known to be a fan of Can and other Krautrock bands (that's when he was young, not just now - so I can see him having listened some of Pink Floyd back in the day). Which isn't surprising, someone who's into musical experimentation (as he was with PiL) couldn't have been just a fan of fast 2-minute guitar songs.
I don't think "Rotten" and "Lydon" are that different at all. Dissing pompous rock stars was a part of his contrarian attitude; the moment that punk rock became musically repetitive and the new fashionable thing image-wise, it makes sense that someone like that would get bored and look for something more challenging music-wise. I would argue that post-punk is the logical continuation of punk's rebellious attitude, in trying to do something new and different musically. And once that everyone starts wearing pins and saying that Pink Floyd sucks, what's the point of continuing to do the same thing?
I suspect that his "I hate Pink Floyd" was a bit like me "hating" The Beatles or The Stones: I actually like many of their songs, I love some, some don't do anything for me, but they've been built up so much as the best bands ever, and they're not among my absolute favorites, so I get sick of them.
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Posted by: 2maggie2 (
Posted at: 28th August 2012 19:08 (UTC)
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Good review! Some comments:
1. Yes, there are those of us who still believe that Buffy didn't say those words to Spike in #37. That they are both using the same term is just a writing convenience to gesture at The Problem as it's being constructed in the comics. One could wank it and say it shows that Buffy and Spike are on the same page. (Just as one has to wank about how the term Zompire got half way around the world as quickly as it did). I prefer doing that wank that the wank I think it takes to read #37 as not being Buffy's fantasy. Obviously, you think the opposite!
2. I assume that the bugs got the necro-tempered glass from the same store room that had a beach lounger, a bunch of small umbrellas, a grass skirt, and a lei. It's a vaaaaast store room, obviously.
3. I agree that Spike is rejecting his self-deception about him and Buffy. But that adds a layer to my own take on the scene, which has Spike rejecting the fake beach, when in fact he's just been enjoying basking in the real sun. I think there are a lot of layers here, which is why I don't think that this issue lacks depth. Lots of real/fake imagery. Lots about self-deception and how that works, etc. I think it's more impressive on that score than a lot of the comics we've seen this season.
4. I think in the faux-mutiny scene Spike is also quite drunk. See right before then when it takes him a while to focus in on what Sebastian is saying to him. I think that's why he has a bumbling reaction to them hoisting him up.
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Posted by: StephenT (
Posted at: 28th August 2012 20:01 (UTC)
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Thanks!
I can actually imagine the bugs owning umbrellas and grass skirts and so on anyway, or at least having the raw materials to fabricate them. But presumably necro-tempered glass is rare and special material. If they already had some, why didn't they use it earlier once Spike became their leader? Only remembered it now?
I have a suspicion you're more attuned to finding depth in Spike's personality, while I'm more focussed on seeing it in Buffy's interactions with Kennedy; and that's why our level of interest in these two comics was reversed. :)
Good idea about Spike possibly being drunk!
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Posted by: Lisa (
Posted at: 29th August 2012 16:04 (UTC)
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I figure the bugs have technology. How do you make 'necrotinted glass' anyway? Maybe all they needed to do was blast it with some harmonic frequency, or anneal it with lasers or coat the glass with some mixture of argon and some other element. (Though honestly, I'm not sure why a simple low-e coating wouldn't suffice. It blocks out nearly all of the UV.)
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Posted by: StephenT (
Posted at: 29th August 2012 18:12 (UTC)
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Well, necro-tempered glass had better be technological, because if you make it using magic, they're out of luck...
As I understand it from the IDW comics, the bug ship is actually only an escape shuttle that was separated from the main ship. So it probably doesn't have the full range of bug technological solutions on board, even if they can clearly make NT glass.
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Posted by: TimeTravellingBunny (
Posted at: 28th August 2012 21:25 (UTC)
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Yes, I also think that Buffy only said "You are my dark place" to Spike in her head, and I don't see any reason to change that opinion. Especially since that's the only way that the scene ever made sense.
It's not like Spike never thought about "darkness" before. And the fact that the writers are enamoured by this phrase of Joss' and are using it as much as they can by no means implies that Spike heard Buffy say those words, any more than Fool for Love implied that Buffy knew that Cecily told William "You are beneath me" or that Lies My Parents Told Me implied that Buffy knew that Nikki Wood told Robin "It's all about the mission". (I've seen people argue the former though I never agreed with them, but I don't believe that there's anyone arguing the latter.)
But Spike realises he's fooling himself - although his repeated protestations that it's time to move on and get his head out of his bum" ring a little false to me. I think he knows what he ought to be doing, but can't bring himself to do it.
Well... I don't know. What should he be doing? :)
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Posted by: StephenT (
Posted at: 28th August 2012 22:45 (UTC)
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He should be moving on, if he really believes that Buffy doesn't and will not think of him that way*. But I don't think he can: he's stuck in a loop of saying, "I've got to move on, I've got to move on" without actually doing so.
* Whether this is actually true is, I think, still up in the air. I get the impression Buffy herself doesn't know what she wants, and her love live is way down on her priority list, since she wants to get the rest of her head straight first. I also think she's guilty of taking Spike for granted and assuming he'll always come when she calls.
As for the dark place thing - I think the scene makes perfect sense if the conversation really happened and the only part that was in Buffy's head was the actual sex fantasy. But two years down the road, I'm not sure anyone will be convinced to change their minds...
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Posted by: TimeTravellingBunny (
Posted at: 28th August 2012 23:05 (UTC)
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As for the dark place thing - I think the scene makes perfect sense if the conversation really happened and the only part that was in Buffy's head was the actual sex fantasy. But two years down the road, I'm not sure anyone will be convinced to change their minds...
Well, I think it really doesn't makes any sense that Buffy and Spike are having this emotional scene and Spike is acting as a passionate and jealous lover and then moping and that Buffy is gazing soulfully into his eyes and going "You are my dark place, Spike", and then he just goes back to indifferently talking about the Seed and wonders why she's distracted. But I'm sure I've told you that before...
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Posted by: StephenT (
Posted at: 29th August 2012 19:18 (UTC)
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To me, though, that wasn't them "having an emotional scene", it was them having an exposition scene that was briefly interrupted by them shouting at each other, then making up again. Which is something they tend to do a lot. I actually think Spike's outburst here is prompted much more by his long-running sibling rivalry with Angel than by his feelings for Buffy.
So it doesn't strain my credulity at all that Spike would reply to Buffy's apologetic "You're my dark place" comment by shrugging uncomfortably, waiting for Buffy to sit down again, and going back to what he was saying before they started arguing - not realising that Buffy was drifting off in a private, glowy sexual fantasy.
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Posted by: slaymesoftly (
Posted at: 29th August 2012 14:08 (UTC)
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Interesting thoughts and well expressed. I enjoyed the issue, but am waiting to see where the story goes before deciding "yay, Spike!" And, I am one of those who (somewhat cynically?) thinks they are testing the waters to see if Spike can support his own comic. IDW had given him one, so there must be numbers out there to suggest he could.
Spike has lived a long time. Although we are only given his liking for punk in canon, I think it is silly to assume that he hasn't been familiar with and fond of many different types of music through the years. If nothing else, he would know about other bands and performers, whether he owned their albums or not. A true "rebel" wouldn't let someone else tell him what he could and couldn't like.
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Posted by: StephenT (
Posted at: 29th August 2012 19:09 (UTC)
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Thanks!
I suspect IDW spun Spike off in his own comic because they weren't allowed to put him with Buffy. He could either be "Angel's wacky sidekick" or the protagonist of his own story. Also, IDW's sales figures were generally lower than Dark Horse's, so they had a lower target to meet. I looked up sales figures for November 2010 to check:
Dark Horse: 'Buffy' Season 8 #38 - 41,189
IDW: 'Angel' # 39 - 14,449
IDW: 'Spike' # 2 - 9,262
(By comparison, Buffy S9 sold 27,490 in July 2012, and Angel & Faith sold 16,656.)
So I think DH will be looking a this more to see "Can we make money from spin-off books" in general rather than specifically, "Can Spike become hero of his own separate series"? After all, the fact that this book is about him instead of Drusilla was a last-minute change of plan as it is.
Spike went to Woodstock. I can just imagine him dressing as a hippy in the 60s. Hey, that was the counterculture back then!
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Posted by: spuffy_luvr (
Posted at: 7th September 2012 03:14 (UTC)
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Now I really want to see some flashback scenes of Spike as a hippie. Too bad it would have to be in the comics only. JM could make even ratty hair and bellbottoms sexy and badass.
I've seen some people post that no self-respecting old-school punk would ever admit to liking Pink Floyd. But they forget that Spike was around for a century before the Sex Pistols, and even attended the Woodstock Festival (where he ate a Flower Person). I think he's more interested in the style and attitude of punk than the actual music... although he did have that Pistols tape that Harmony destroyed.
The sun would indeed destroy Spike if he were pushed out of the ship, unless something (like the moon) was interposed between it and him. In space, even though the stars are always visible, so is the sun. This was how Buffy killed the Zompire Xenomorph in the "In Space No One Can Hear You Slay" story.
I wondered why, if the demons intend to kill Spike, they would wait to take him into space and push him out an airlock. Why not just stake or behead him? The only reason is to give Spike time to come up with an escape plan, apparently.