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A couple of thoughts on season 8 so far

7th December 2007 (17:53)

First, a lot of people have complained that the artwork makes the characters look like children. It's not something I've particularly noticed: their bodies are adult enough, and I'm not sure what else you'd do to the faces: add lots of wrinkles and sag lines? They're 24, not 64. :-) However, the new episode did include one picture of Faith that really did make her look about 12 - and after some study, I've decided why I thought so. 

Compare and contrast:



It's one of those trivia things you pick up, that the average adult human body is roughly seven head-heights tall; maybe a bit less. As you see, that's certainly true for Eliza Dushku (on the left). In the drawing, however, Faith's head is about 18% larger than Eliza's proportionate to the rest of her body. That immediately makes her look child-like, because children's heads are much bigger proportionate to their bodies: a baby's head accounts for 25% of its body length as opposed to 14% in an adult.

The fact that Jeanty actually drew Faith with a much narrower waist and slightly larger bust than Eliza has in real life* doesn't do enough to compensate for the disporoprtionate head.

*If you happen to be reading this, Eliza, I'm sorry for mentioning that: but it's true. :-)


Secondly, there's been some controversy over the quarrel between Giles and Buffy this issue, with some - such as shapinglight- wondering if there's anything we've not been told about behind it. My first reaction was that there doesn't need to be: Giles has given Buffy a perfectly good reason for feeling hurt and betrayed (rather than just angry) by not trusting her with the information about Gigi's apocalypse and going behind her back instead. He's undermining her authority, which is already weighing heavily on her shoulders as we saw from her soliloquy in 8.01, quite apart from the Faith factor.

However, on further consideration I've realised something interesting. We already know Giles is moving around a lot and frequently out of touch with headquarters. (He's in Russia in 8.02, in the US in 8.05 and 8.06, in Britain in 8.07). However, consider this:

In 8.01, Buffy is asking Xander if "the experts" have discovered anything about the Twilight symbol.
In 8.06, Buffy is again asking Xander if he has heard anything more from "our friend in the library".

It might be perfectly innocent... but it looks strangely like Buffy can't bring herself to say Giles' name. And she isn't talking to him directly, but leaving it to Xander to keep in touch with him: and doesn't even realise until Xander tells her so that Giles has been 'incommunicado for weeks'.

Sure, she's got a lot to do, and may have just delegated this one part of her job to Xander. But I'm now wondering if Joss hasn't been quietly showing us that they're not on speaking terms all along, and only now has it come out into the open...

As for why... well, it may be because of something that happened in the missing 18 months. Or it could equally be that after Spike died saving the world, all Buffy could think about was that Giles had just tried to have him killed, and their brief reconciliation when she came up with the plan to use the Scythe wasn't enough to stop their relationship souring permanently, once the immediate danger was over.

Comments

Posted by: Mrs Darcy (elisi)
Posted at: 7th December 2007 19:08 (UTC)
Spuffy - destroyer of worlds! by frimfra

Haven't read issue 9 yet, but this:

Or it could equally be that after Spike died saving the world, all Buffy could think about was that Giles had just tried to have him killed, and their brief reconciliation when she came up with the plan to use the Scythe wasn't enough to stop their relationship souring permanently, once the immediate danger was over.

made me think of this icon. ;) *Everything* is Spuffy's fault!

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 7th December 2007 20:17 (UTC)

*Chuckles*

It does make sense though...

Posted by: Barb (rahirah)
Posted at: 8th December 2007 04:15 (UTC)

It does make sense, tons of sense, but I'll be stunned if Spike's at the root of the estrangement. (I just can't get far enough into the Duck Zone to see claddagh rings in the Beast's eyes buy that Spike's conspicuous absence from Buffy's memories - barring the one sexual fantasy - means anything other than that she's moved on.)

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 8th December 2007 11:26 (UTC)

she's moved on

I'm pretty sure she's moved on too, *now*, 18 months after his death. I was thinking more that she and Giles had a falling-out early on when the grief was still fresh; things were said, and they stopped communicating... and in all the confusion of setting up the worldwide organisation, they let things fester. So it's not about Spike now, or any one thing; it's just a pattern they've both fallen into.

Posted by: 2maggie2 (2maggie2)
Posted at: 7th December 2007 19:17 (UTC)

Interesting observation. It fits with the fact that Buffy needs Willow's mobile to call Giles. And it would make more sense of Giles' statement to Faith that he and Buffy aren't on speaking terms at the moment, because it's a bit of a leap from their brief exchange which concludes with Giles saying he doesn't want Buffy to be a part of what's going on with Faith to the idea that they are not speaking to each other at all. Indeed, that whole scene makes much more sense as a conversation between two people who are already not speaking to each other.

If we take the idea that Giles and Buffy have been estranged throughout, it becomes clear that when Buffy says she still has her watcher, she really does mean Xander, not Giles. (Not just as subtext, but rather as text, text -- with some bitterness thrown in). The idea that there's a standing rift also means that we have to temper our judgment about Giles' secrecy thus far. If there is a poisonous atmosphere between them that might be part of why he didn't feel free to talk to her about his plans to work with Faith. (Her reaction to the fact that he's working with Faith suggests that he's right that Buffy would have issues in that direction.)

But this just underscores that we are missing story. If I put on my 'trust Joss' hat -- it means that we can expect to get it. Without knowing exactly what has gone down between Buffy and Giles, we can't form a meaningful judgment about what Giles has been up to or Buffy's reaction to it. As you point out, whatever the rupture is, it's not enough to cut Giles off from the mission, or from either Willow or Xander. As I said in a comment to Shapinglight -- this is becoming a make or break deal for me. Cause if we don't get the backstory, then this is all fairly random -- there are too many alternate ways to fill in the blanks for us to have anyway of assessing what happened.

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 7th December 2007 20:15 (UTC)

It does make a lot of sense, doesn't it?

Joss definitely seems to have taken the approach that he's got a complete story worked out, but he's only going to be feeding us bits and pieces of it here and there until suddenly - probably by issue 35 or so - everything will suddenly fall into place and become clear.

I think it's a daring and courageous stragey which will go horribly wrong if too many people lose interst before he gets to the exposition. :-)

Posted by: 2maggie2 (2maggie2)
Posted at: 7th December 2007 20:40 (UTC)

According to my comic seller, sales are remaining steady. So by that measure, Joss's strategy is working fine. OTOH, fewer and fewer reviews show up on my flist for each issue.

Going on the theory that this all does add up, let me observe that if Giles and Buffy are already on the outs, and if Dawn and Buffy have a relationship that is severely strained, then we have a hint of an interesting pattern: which is that Buffy isn't getting along with the 'ordinary' humans so well. And that would echo the theme of Twilight's war between humans and slayers in a different key. The one notable exception to the pattern would be Xander...

I get more hopeful as all this unfolds that Joss really does have a big picture that adds up in a way that will be quite great. But that also opens up more room for disappointment.

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 8th December 2007 17:54 (UTC)

fewer and fewer reviews show up on my flist for each issue.

I've not really seen that myself, to be honest. Yes, there was a big surge of interest when the comic first came out, which dropped away fairly rapidly as people decided it wasn't for them. That's understandable (and pretty common with all entertainment media).

But for the last 6 - 7 issues the number of reviews I've seen seems fairly constant. However, they do seem more spread out instead of all appearing on the same day, curiously enough...

Posted by: Owen (owenthurman)
Posted at: 9th December 2007 20:19 (UTC)

The one notable exception to the pattern would be Xander...

There is some kind of tension with Xander, also. There's the weird sex/balloon head dream and the hiding behind the punching bag vibe going on there, too. So that makes all the ordinary humans.

Posted by: skipp_of_ark (skipp_of_ark)
Posted at: 19th December 2007 21:39 (UTC)

But at least any tension between Buffy and Xander isn't preventing them from both working together and actually talking to each other. Perhaps Joss intends that to be in contrast to the last few seasons of the show, when he and the writers would go out of their way to alienate Buffy from most the Scoobies including Xander and/or push Xander so far into the background that he was mostly irrelevant for large chunks of entire seasons.

(Then again, the fact that Joss has given Xander a new status quo without any apparent issues worryingly suggests that, once again, Joss has no plans to give Xander a storyline or any further characterization/growth. Making Xander the Scoobies' One-Man-Emotional-Support-System, no matter how noble or mature Joss thinks it is, really does put the kibosh on letting Xander have any longterm growth or any need to rely on his friends for emotional support himself. Then again, I'm biased, as Xander's my favorite character and Joss seems to think essentially making him the the Scoobies' equivalent of a stay-at-home househusband is somehow truly daring and feministically "edgy"; it still doesn't change the fact that Joss is inherently uninterested in the role of the 'housewife/husband,' much less whichever character gets stuck in that role.)

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 20th December 2007 11:11 (UTC)

the fact that Joss has given Xander a new status quo without any apparent issues worryingly suggests that, once again, Joss has no plans to give Xander a storyline or any further characterization/growth.
My reaction has been the exact opposite, though: after a couple of seasons of sidelining Xander, Joss has taken this opportunity to bring him front and centre for season 8. I'm sure he's had far more dialogue and screen time, proportionately speaking, than the previous two seasons.

And while you're complaining that he's just a "stay at home househusband" now, other people are complaining that he's been made too prominent, and it's unfeminist for him to be ordering women around the way he does... Poor Joss can't win. :-(

Posted by: idiotnighthawk (idiotnighthawk)
Posted at: 7th December 2007 21:17 (UTC)

I'm growing a little disappointed in overall fan reaction to the artwork. A comic is not supposed to be a photo-realistic art form. The image itself is the context that would normally be created with music cues, with inflection, with performance. All the artists have to produce those effects are pencilling, inking, coloring, and lettering. It happens through those tools or not at all. So, my presumption is that when I see a flashback of a moment maybe 5 or 6 years earlier in Faith's life, and before a lot of changes, I'm seeing her look younger than she was, because I'm supposed to be reminded of the time that's past and how emotionally innocent she was in that relationship. It's reasonable to think of it as artistic hyperbole.

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 7th December 2007 22:12 (UTC)

Hmm. I do see your point.

The problem is that if Jeanty was deliberately trying for that effect, it relies on his audience understanding the conventions and codes of comics art... which a lot of the new fans reading Season 8 (me included) don't.

So it's inevitable that he's going to receive criticism...even if it does turn out to be uninformed criticism!

I certainly don't expect the art to be photo-realistic: some of the 'Angel' comics attempted that, and I don't think it worked that well. But Jeanty does seem to be trying for a fairly realistic and detailed style, rather than something obviously cartoonish or impressionistic - so when his drawings don't look like the real person so drastically, it looks wrong.

Posted by: Barb (rahirah)
Posted at: 8th December 2007 04:36 (UTC)

Well, I was a major comic book fan for years (I only stopped because I decided that groceries were more important than comics), and I'm not terribly thrilled with the art, either. It's OK, I've seen worse, but it's nothing to write home about. But the flaws, if one considers them flaws, have nothing to do with comic conventions, except in the sense that a lot of comic book artists are so immersed in said conventions that they're not, to put it bluntly, all that good at drawing people who look like human beings rather than superheroes. And that's not usually a problem, because most of them are drawing superheroes.

There are a lot of comic book artists who CAN pull it off - Ross, the Bros Hernandez, Steve Rude, etc. Urru, IMO, can do it - his versions of the characters don't look exactly like the actors either, but he knows how to draw correctly proportioned normal human beings. Jeanty is not very good at that, though he may improve with practice. That head-too-big thing (which also happens in that Avengers cover, to painful effect) is a classic error made by artists who are drawing from reference materials - 'surface' drawing, trying to reproduce details without sufficient understanding of the underlying structures - and also by artists who are drawing figures in an unfamiliar proportion.

Superheroes are 8+ heads tall, and it looks to me like Jeanty is over-correcting in his attempt to scale down to normal human proportions. It happened to me all the time back in the days when I was switching from drawing normal humans to drawing Elfquest-style elves, which were 4-5 heads tall. Generally you get all caught up in the details of the drawing, and don't realize the proportions are off until you step back and look at it from a distance.

The thing that gets me is...back in the olden days, such an error would require re-doing a whole panel, or a whole page, if you didn't notice it in time. The temptation to say "Screw it, it's only funny books," would be strong. But these days, with Photoshop, it's trivially easy to fix, if you notice it at all. So what bothers me is the possibility that Jeanty simply doesn't notice.

Posted by: Mrs Darcy (elisi)
Posted at: 8th December 2007 13:25 (UTC)
PuppetAngel by the_royal_anna.

Just... amen to everything. And yes, I've spent *years* drawing Elfquest elves too! :)

(And, interestingly, the Pini's can perfectly well pull off ordinary humans. And now I'm imagining s8 drawn by Wendy...)

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 8th December 2007 17:59 (UTC)

That head-too-big thing (which also happens in that Avengers cover, to painful effect) is a classic error made by artists who are drawing from reference materials

I can understand how it happens. In fact, I've done some messing around with photomanips superimposing one head onto another body. It's *very* easy to paste the head at too large a size, and only notice the wrong proportions much later.

I suspect we're hardwired to pay much more attention to faces, and not really care about the body as much?

Posted by: aycheb (aycheb)
Posted at: 8th December 2007 11:05 (UTC)

I've very little experience of comics art but Jeanty's style seems to mix cartoonish and realistic effects in a way that's very common in animation. He consistently draws his characters' heads slighty disproportionally large even in action and long distance shots when he's unlikely to be copying from a model. It allows him to give more emphasis to faces, to give them very nuanced expressions and I think that works very well for Buffy where hearts and minds are more important than bodies. In the Faith arc he also seems to using expressionist techniques for her portrayal, when she feels ugly or conflicted the lines grow angry and jagged. The altered allometry is a stylistic tick which also recalls mediaeval art (think of the proportions on the Bayeaux tapestry or in illuminated manuscripts) and that seems fitting for representing the age of magic. (Although I wonder given Twilight's double dealing with Roden and Gigi whether setting humans against Slayers and technologists against magicians might be more of the same.)

Posted by: Mrs Darcy (elisi)
Posted at: 8th December 2007 14:12 (UTC)
Spike: Asylum by kathyh

In the Faith arc he also seems to using expressionist techniques for her portrayal, when she feels ugly or conflicted the lines grow angry and jagged.
That is the best explanation I've ever seen. But I still think it's ugly, and that if he were a better, and more subtle, artist he wouldn't need to do it. (If indeed that is why.)

(And I *do* have - if not an extensive - then certainly a fairly wide experience of comics art.)

Edited at 2007-12-08 15:26 (UTC)

Posted by: aycheb (aycheb)
Posted at: 8th December 2007 18:05 (UTC)

I don't think expressionism is a matter of needing to rather than wanting to. Why botox your medium just to look pretty? Jeanty can draw subtly shaded emotions perfectly well, the expressionist artists (Munch, Schiele, Chagal) were specifically interested in the depiction of extreme states. But as has often been noted in these discussions what people want out of art varies wildly. I don't want the art to seduce me, I want it to tell me a story not wallow in it like a great hurt/comfort epic.

Posted by: Mrs Darcy (elisi)
Posted at: 8th December 2007 18:16 (UTC)
PuppetAngel by the_royal_anna.

All I want is for the art not to distract me, and make me think 'I could have done that better.' (Seriously, I look at some of it, and know that if *I* had drawn it, I wouldn't have been satisfied.)

It's not just that I don't like the style (that is purely subjective, and in some cases I think Jeanty does beautiful work), it's that it looks sloppy.

Posted by: aycheb (aycheb)
Posted at: 8th December 2007 20:32 (UTC)

So would you have drawn Faith's head more in proportion to her body in her flashback with the Mayor?

Posted by: Mrs Darcy (elisi)
Posted at: 8th December 2007 20:46 (UTC)
Fanfic by kathyh

Oh yes, but actually that didn't bother me all that much - or at least not as much as it bothered others. I was thinking more of... wait a moment... things like bottom right image of Faith on p23 (the one where she talks about being like a social worker). It makes my eyes hurt.

Other times she's fine though, and Willow (funnily enough) Jeanty has a really good handle on.

Posted by: aycheb (aycheb)
Posted at: 8th December 2007 21:23 (UTC)

OK but you see right there what you think of as a technical flaw is to me an artistic choice and in the first instance a truly excellent one. The mismatch betwen the head and the body both in terms of size and of realism (the body is quite cartoonishly demure) really brings out the way Faith is playing a part - Jeanty's drawing is actually much closer to my memory of the original scene than the screencap is. So I think it's still subjective (I don't seem to remember images in proportion or perspective but I'm sure other people can).

Posted by: Mrs Darcy (elisi)
Posted at: 9th December 2007 10:02 (UTC)
Writing is hard! by missmurchison

And I still think it's the comic book equivalent of a really obvious soundtrack or story filled with caps locks and exclamation marks. :)

But I'm glad you like it. (I'd probably like it a lot more if it wasn't trying to depict my beloved Buffy.)

Posted by: Mrs Darcy (elisi)
Posted at: 8th December 2007 15:49 (UTC)
Spike: Asylum by kathyh

I'm growing a little disappointed in overall fan reaction to the artwork.
I'm just disappointed with the artwork: It's servicable, nothing more, when it ought to be seducing me. (And yes, the comparisons to Giles' car are v. deliberate! I've read comics where the art is so gorgeous I'll linger for the longest time, just drowning in teh pretty - or the very particular heartache evoked in just a few strokes with a pen - or the mood created with nothing more than colour and a few words. Comics can be *stunning* - season 8 isn't.)

Posted by: aycheb (aycheb)
Posted at: 7th December 2007 21:17 (UTC)

In 8.01 it's Xander who says "the experts" have nothing and Buffy later tells Dawn re:Kenny that "even Giles said he was a thricewise and he only met him on the phone." Which suggests a lack of face-face contact rather than an active avoidance on Buffy's part.

I think you could explain Giles's assumption that they're no longer on speaking terms on the fact that he's learned from their phone call that Buffy knows about Faith and Gigi and any future speaking terms would necessarily involve him admitting to having sent an assassin after a fellow Slayer. Given how things went the last time he went behind her back to set up a killing it's not an unreasonable assumption that even if she were prepared to speak to him now it could only end one way.

Having said that there are things that they may have had differences over such as the new funding arrangements or the use of doubles (one of whom is now dead). I also get the impression reading back through the issues that Giles may not have felt part of the sisterhood of light for some time and offering Faith retirement was a projection of his own desires. He does however know about the original Twilight sacrifice and the symbol as he was talking to the "Queen Victoria" demon about in in 8.3. So I wonder whether Roden's book has self-destructed or he still has it. He may have assumed that Roden was higher up in the organisation than he appears to have been and Gigi's plot was meant to be the apocalypse that all his aurors are picking up on.

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 7th December 2007 22:22 (UTC)

Which suggests a lack of face-face contact rather than an active avoidance on Buffy's part.

It doesn't suggest that there's anything wrong, true - but it doesn't prove the opposite either. And if Joss was dropping subtle hints, he'd obviously want to keep them more subtle in 8.01 than in 8.06! Buffy's clearly given Xander the job of talking to Giles rather than doing it herself in 8.01 (and he's not mentioning him by name). Plus there's nothing to say that she was talking to Giles herself when he mentioned Kenny; she might be repeating something Xander or someone else told her he said.

Still, I've no problem with the scenario you suggest either; I just think it would be really neat if the Giles-Buffy rift had been hiding in plain sight all this time.

He may have assumed that Roden was higher up in the organisation than he appears to have been and Gigi's plot was meant to be the apocalypse that all his aurors are picking up on.

I think the plot involving Gigi was the apocalypse... or at least it was Twilight's Plan A. But with her and Roden dead, he's perfectly happy to switch to Plan B instead (and presumably C through Z too). Of course, as you say Giles might now assume that with Roden dead, the threat has been completely averted.

The Twilight book was still intact in Giles' hand after Roden went all Scanners.

Posted by: mrs_underhill (mrs_underhill)
Posted at: 7th December 2007 22:28 (UTC)
Illyria says - canon!

Of course, as you say Giles might now assume that with Roden dead, the threat has been completely averted.
I tried to be as nice to Giles as I could, so I tried to give him this motivation. But he says to Faith in the end: "The war is coming". So no, he knows it's not over and what he's done is looking to me like deserting in the middle of the war. Twilight seems to be of the same opinion.

Posted by: idiotnighthawk (idiotnighthawk)
Posted at: 8th December 2007 03:24 (UTC)

I'm hoping that Giles still makes a point to pass along the Twilight guidebook to the BHC where the people there are trying to fight the war. But, the book is probably how he knows that the war is still coming.

You know, that realization is actually making him less sympathetic to me. He knows what's in the book, he knows that killing Buffy is the point of it. And he... is just going to walk away to do side missions with Faith?

Posted by: aycheb (aycheb)
Posted at: 8th December 2007 10:09 (UTC)

Giles says a war is coming but a war is rarely fought on a single front. His next sentence implies that he's sees the battle for the hearts and minds of potential Gigis as a front that has been neglected in the great recruitment drive. We've seen him preaching to the converted in The Chain but he was already concerned about those of the 1800-2000 new slayers who are not using their powers conscientiously at the beginning of the arc. The battle with Roden/Gogi has made it all to clear that some of them may not only not be contributing to the cause but being recruited to work against it.

Posted by: Shapinglight (shapinglight)
Posted at: 8th December 2007 17:58 (UTC)
Comic book Giles

It wasn't just one panel where Faith looks childlike. What about that one near the end with Giles? That's even worse than this one.

Also, if you're right about Giles and Buffy, I'll be ecstatic. However, the fact that Giles seems to have departed for pastures new with Faith at the end of this arc and may not be back for years, doesn't fill me with hope.

I just have this feeling that the emotional dots will never be joined between the end of season 7 and this series - though again, I'll be ecstatic to be proved wrong.

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 8th December 2007 18:12 (UTC)

What about that one near the end with Giles? That's even worse than this one

You mean the "You think it's a lame idea, right?" one? The one with Faith in a really tight t-shirt with a devil poking her in the left nipple?

Um, childlike? :-)

I do see what you mean, really. :-) It's another head proportion problem; but even worse since she's only five and a half heads tall instead of seven. However, this picture didn't bother me nearly so much, because it's somehow more obviously cartoon-like rather than realistic... the characters are almost like chibis.


And I'm still hoping for an announcement of the Faith'n'Giles spin-off comic...

Posted by: Shapinglight (shapinglight)
Posted at: 9th December 2007 17:17 (UTC)
Comic book Giles

I'm afraid I'm with Rahirah about the art. It's not awful but it's not good either and Jeanty seems to have very little idea of human anatomy.

A Faith/Giles spin-off would be great, as long as Jeanty doesn't draw it.

Posted by: mrs_underhill (mrs_underhill)
Posted at: 8th December 2007 19:30 (UTC)
Illyria says - canon!

Stormwreath - I hope you are right. And I hope this issue with Buffy and Giles will be addressed soon. I don't have patience for the arcs which take years, it seems. I keep expecting each arc to tie in stuff which happened in that arc, and get very frustrated when that doesn't happen. Ack.

And I really hope that that guide book, or an anonymous field report on Roden, Gigi and the "upcoming purge", will turn up in Buffy's mailbox or something like that. That would salvage my opinion of Giles. Hiding this info from Buffy does count as treason in my eyes, as it almost got her killed, and almost got Faith killed, and in fact it threatens all the slayers, and witches too - including Willow. Giles can wash his hands off the Scoobies and leave any time he wants, but to continue hiding such a vital info from them - it's incredibly irresposible of him.

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 8th December 2007 23:42 (UTC)

Actually, it never crossed my mind that Giles wouldn't send her the spell book afterwards. He did say "I can explain later" in his phone call - he just didn't want her getting involved in the plot to kill Gigi before it was all resolved and done with.

And I'm currently watching 'Carnivale' season 2, where mysterious goings-on, weird prophetic dreams, and apparently unrelated sub-plots are cropping up all over the place and most of them are still unexplained after over a year's worth of episodes... Season 8 hasn't begun to approach that yet. I think it's just the style of storytelling Joss has chosen: a big mosaic, with the pieces falling one by one into place.

Posted by: mrs_underhill (mrs_underhill)
Posted at: 9th December 2007 00:54 (UTC)
Illyria says - canon!

He did say "I can explain later" in his phone call
Yes, that's what one would expect too. An explanation after the crisis is over. But his words to Faith: "I wouldn't know, we are not on speaking terms with Buffy" implied that they didn't talk after that phone call. Which is majorly weird unless your theory proves to be right.
They flashed that book a lot, maybe it'll turn out in #10 or #11 and my worries will be for nothing.

Posted by: iheartgirl (novin_ha)
Posted at: 4th January 2008 22:24 (UTC)
[angel] fred book

When I was writing my first post-Chosen fanfiction, I had Buffy talk to Giles, and I initially planned to have them on speaking and familial terms - but I just couldn't do it, and in the end it only worked when there was a definite antagonism. I just didn't feel their issues to be resolved after Lies My Parents Told Me, not yet.

And when Buffy said she still has a Watcher and it turned out to be Xander, I felt my theory confirmed. The entire Giles and Faith storyline seems to me to further prove it, because that's kind of Giles with surrogate Buffy on one level for me (there's obviously a lot more going on, but that too).

Which is why I can't wait to have a confrontation between them. Their relationship has always been an important point for me, and now I can't wait to see the next step.

Also, I agree on the subject of the Faith picture - it stood out to me, too, and I really didn't like it.

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 5th January 2008 13:05 (UTC)

I think that almost all Buffy's relationships suffered in season 7 under the strain of fighting The First. Some of them were strong enough to weather the storm; others, not so much. But because the last episode had to end on an up note, she had to be shown reconciling with everybody.

There's no reason why those reconciliations (with Giles, with Faith, etc) might not turn out to be permanent - but once the immediate urgency of fighting The First was over, there's also no reason why they might not have fallen apart again...

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