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(Meta) Buffy and Satsu: an opinion poll

5th March 2008 (12:59)

Spoilers for Issue 12 below the cut. What do you think? 

*
Poll #1149211 Buffy and Satsu

Buffy/Satsu?

Dude. Totally saw this coming. It was wicked obvious.
52(39.1%)
Huh? What the why hey what now? No way!!
54(40.6%)
What on earth are you talking about?
2(1.5%)
Clicky radio button! Wheee!!
25(18.8%)

So tell me. How do you feel about this?

Yay!
37(28.0%)
Yuk!
4(3.0%)
Yawn!
25(18.9%)
Joss, WTF are you smoking?
26(19.7%)
Feel about what? I don't know what's going on.
3(2.3%)
My thoughts are far too complex to be confined by your puny ticky boxes, so I'll answer in comments.
10(7.6%)
*

And since I've noticed this post has now been linked to in a couple of places, perhaps I'd better mention what I'm talking about. :-)  New York Times Interview with Joss. Warning: huge spoilers!

Comments

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Posted by: Shapinglight (shapinglight)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 13:08 (UTC)

My thought aren't really well-described by 'yawn' but it's not like you couldn't see the possibility, so it was more of a 'hmm' really.

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 13:23 (UTC)

But "hmm" doesn't start with the letter 'y' so wouldn't fit. :-)

Posted by: Mrs Darcy (elisi)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 13:16 (UTC)
Spangel almost kissing by amavel_bel

My thoughts aren't complex, but don't fit your boxes either. Basically, as you said, I didn't think they'd go there, so am surprised they did.

Now Joss just needs to get some of his *male* characters into bed...

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 13:28 (UTC)

Believe it or not, I do actually agree with your comment. ;-)

Showing same-sex relationships on primetime TV or in a comic is progressive and good. But when all your positive-role-model gay characters are women, and the only gay men are either a joke (Andrew) or get four lines of dialogue then get killed (Larry) you risk people thinking you've got skanky sexuality issues...

Posted by: Mrs Darcy (elisi)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 13:35 (UTC)

Posted by: Vincent (bououou)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 15:37 (UTC)

Posted by: * (malfeasanceses)
Posted at: 9th March 2008 04:31 (UTC)

Posted by: Lisa (shipperx)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 19:01 (UTC)

Posted by: Beer Good (beer_good_foamy)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 13:18 (UTC)

I'm somewhere between the first and second options on the radio button; considering my opinions on Buffy/Faith, it's not like I could claim it's impossible, but as far as their relationship "growing organically"... sure, whatever you say, Joss. But we'll see when we get the full issue, I suppose. Again, so far it's hardly the most wtf-worthy moment in the comics.

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 13:32 (UTC)

You've read the interview as well, I take it? Because it certainly doesn't sound like the scene in the preview is "and then they lived happily ever after". It's the next stage of something really complex and angsty and messily believable.

Posted by: Beer Good (beer_good_foamy)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 13:58 (UTC)

Posted by: Lisa (shipperx)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 19:02 (UTC)

Posted by: ladypeyton (ladypeyton)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 13:21 (UTC)

I'm not ready for Buffy to move on to anybody, yet, and although part of me is almost ok with her moving on to someone who isn't a guy, the other part is annoyed with how fast and loose he's playing with Buffy's sexuality. In a way it's almost as if he just wants to be edgy and Torchwood-like. "Oooooh! We're all bisexual here!"

I call shenanigans.

Joss, that sunofabitch, still hasn't given me any way to be resolved about Spuffy. We got nothing even remotely like closeure. When I was a Bangel I felt I had closure after S3. Spuffy is kind of dragging me down like a lingering infection. She was frikkin' smiling over his frikkin' grave ferchrisakes! I'm a tad resentful.

Posted by: Mrs Darcy (elisi)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 13:32 (UTC)
Smile Fan by buttersideup

In a way it's almost as if he just wants to be edgy and Torchwood-like. "Oooooh! We're all bisexual here!"
That's what I thought too! :)

I'm eagerly waiting for all the 'But Ianto Buffy isn't gay!' arguments!

(I thought the end of 'Chosen' was perfect. /eternal Spuffy fan)

Edited at 2008-03-05 13:33 (UTC)

Posted by: Elena (moscow_watcher)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 13:41 (UTC)

Posted by: Mrs Darcy (elisi)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 13:43 (UTC)

Posted by: Shapinglight (shapinglight)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 13:50 (UTC)

Posted by: Mrs Darcy (elisi)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 14:04 (UTC)

Posted by: Shapinglight (shapinglight)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 14:11 (UTC)

Posted by: Mrs Darcy (elisi)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 14:14 (UTC)

Posted by: Beer Good (beer_good_foamy)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 14:15 (UTC)

Posted by: fangfaceandrea (fangfaceandrea)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 18:42 (UTC)

Posted by: Shapinglight (shapinglight)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 19:27 (UTC)

Posted by: ladypeyton (ladypeyton)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 13:51 (UTC)

Posted by: Mrs Darcy (elisi)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 14:03 (UTC)

Posted by: ladypeyton (ladypeyton)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 14:04 (UTC)

Posted by: Mrs Darcy (elisi)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 14:08 (UTC)

Posted by: Beer Good (beer_good_foamy)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 14:18 (UTC)

Posted by: ladypeyton (ladypeyton)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 14:21 (UTC)

Posted by: Mrs Darcy (elisi)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 14:24 (UTC)

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 13:41 (UTC)

Posted by: ladypeyton (ladypeyton)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 13:45 (UTC)

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 13:55 (UTC)

Posted by: ladypeyton (ladypeyton)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 14:02 (UTC)

Posted by: Mrs Darcy (elisi)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 17:55 (UTC)

Posted by: ladypeyton (ladypeyton)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 13:53 (UTC)

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 13:59 (UTC)

Posted by: ladypeyton (ladypeyton)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 14:02 (UTC)

Posted by: filmtx (filmtx)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 14:20 (UTC)

Posted by: Barb (rahirah)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 14:53 (UTC)

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 15:02 (UTC)

Posted by: 2maggie2 (2maggie2)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 19:46 (UTC)

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 21:17 (UTC)

Posted by: filmtx (filmtx)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 14:14 (UTC)
dollhouse

I think I'm going to stay decidedly ambivalent about Buffy and Satsu for the moment and see how things progress. I can see Buffy being bi-curious. Who could blame her? She's surrounded by hot girls who idolize her. Her best friend is gay, and in a longterm, seemingly loving relationship. Plus, she has very little male interaction, except with Xander. And, lets face it, she hasn't had much luck with men. So, yeah... Why not? But I agree with whoever posted above that it would be more experimental, which would not be good for Satsu and could become a big mess very easily. But we all know how Joss loves messy relationships.

ETA: I really hope Joss doesn't kill off Satsu or make her turn against Buffy because I really don't want to get into another dead/evil lesbian debate.

Edited at 2008-03-05 14:22 (UTC)

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 14:52 (UTC)

At least Joss is now aware of the Evil Dead Lesbian Cliché, and knows how fans will react if he kills Satsu now...

(Which probably wouldn't stop him anyway.)

Posted by: filmtx (filmtx)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 15:17 (UTC)

Posted by: skipp_of_ark (skipp_of_ark)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 14:17 (UTC)

Just a month ago, we had the preview showing Xander asking Renee out, and among the reactions I observed were folks rolling their eyes at Joss for pairing up a "TV" character with a "two-dimensional" "comic book" character, and a few folks resentful that they've seen no grief from Xander over Anya, despite the fact that Season 8 was said by Joss to start up around a year and a half after Chosen.

Now, with one page, Joss and Co. have pretty much guaranteed that Xander and Whoever He's Dating will, once again, go right to the bottom of both A)plots the writers will pay any attention to, and B)relationships the audience pays any attention to...that is, until the audience decides that Xander isn't treating Renee right and that he deserves to die.

Other than that, I REALLY wish I could ask SMG what she thinks about it at the Paley Center event. :)

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 14:55 (UTC)

I've seen identical reactions to Buffy/Satsu already. Some of them in this very thread. :-)

And considering what a consummately professional actress SMG is, I'm sure her first reaction would be regret that she doesn't have the challenge of playing this role on screen...

Posted by: filmtx (filmtx)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 15:19 (UTC)

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 16:54 (UTC)

Posted by: filmtx (filmtx)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 19:13 (UTC)

Posted by: fangfaceandrea (fangfaceandrea)
Posted at: 6th March 2008 00:10 (UTC)

Posted by: Peasant (peasant_)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 14:30 (UTC)

My main feeling is annoyance at discovering her name is pronounced SOUGHT-sue, leaving me with the dilemma of whether to try to remember every time I read it or to just continue to get it wrong. (I speak as someone who still can't pronounce lieutenant properly in my head when I see it written down, despite nearly 30 years of reading naval and military books.)

Posted by: ladypeyton (ladypeyton)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 14:41 (UTC)

annoyance at discovering her name is pronounced SOUGHT-sue

Uh huh! That was my strongest reaction to reading the article...well after hearing about all the really big surprises beforehand.

I'm pretty sure I've decided to ignore it, in the future, though. To me she'll alweays be SAT-su.

Posted by: Peasant (peasant_)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 14:58 (UTC)

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 14:50 (UTC)

Posted by: Peasant (peasant_)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 15:06 (UTC)

Posted by: Elena (moscow_watcher)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 16:29 (UTC)

Posted by: Owen (owenthurman)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 21:50 (UTC)

Posted by: Molly May (molly_may)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 16:23 (UTC)
Puhlease - crackers4jenn

I looked back at the post I wrote about your Scooby gang sexuality poll and saw that I said to you "I'm not saying that I don't think Buffy might never experiment with her sexuality, but honestly I don't think Satsu stands a chance". If you'll excuse me, I'll be over here eating my words.

I have to say, it does feel a bit like a "ratings ploy" to me. I remember a month or two ago when there were the reports that comic book sellers were encouraged to order extra copies of #12 because something big was going to happen, and the speculation was that since it was the werewolf issue, Oz would be making an appearance. Instead, it turns out they were encouraged to stock up because it's the "Buffy gets it on with a girl" issue, but don't worry, it doesn't change the fact that she's straight! It doesn't feel that much different than Jennifer Aniston kissing Winona Ryder on "Friends" during sweeps month, you know? I'm sure it will be handled with more respect than that, but at the same time it feels kind of cheap.

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 16:29 (UTC)

I know very little about the world of comics in general beyond what I've seen people discussing here on LJ, but I get the impression that sympathetic gay characters and relationships are even less common there than they are on genre TV shows like 'Buffy'. Plus, the demographic is much more slanted to the teenage male audience.

In other words, I'm wondering if Joss himself (and Drew) is writing a serious, character-driven story... but someone at Dark Horse who's much more part of the comicbook world took a look at the draft artwork, thought "Wahey! Lesbians!", and immediately leaked the rumour to the distribution on his own initiative...

Edited at 2008-03-05 16:31 (UTC)

Posted by: mrs_underhill (mrs_underhill)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 16:48 (UTC)
Walking ME

Somewhere between Yawn and WTF. I just didn't think Buffyverse needed yet another lesbian encounter. While we still yet have to see a single gay encounter, mua-ha-ha! I say, not fair! :)
Also, baby slayers showing no interest in men (except highly suspect Renee?) There's a theory about that, floating around, but I'd better post it separately.

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 16:51 (UTC)

I do wonder about that... a hundred Slayers living in the castle, and on average there should be about 2 lesbians, 8 bisexual and 30 or so vaguely bi-curious, if I remember my out-of-date-and-dubious-survey-data correctly. :-) So what are the rest of them doing?

Posted by: Shapinglight (shapinglight)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 18:00 (UTC)

Posted by: your friendly neighborhood ninja (juniperlane)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 17:36 (UTC)
buffy/satsu let the fire burn

I do not think "yay" sums up my reaction. BUT, I am starting to come down off the high and ponder the NYT article.

I just think it's weird that Satsu would regret it the same way Buffy would? Because Satsu, according to the rules of Amy's spell, has some form of true love for Buffy, and I don't think she'd consider sleeping with her to be equivalent to using her. She could consider it a mistake since it won't go anywhere, but I think Satsu and Buffy are going to go through 2 very different fall-outs to what happened.

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 18:29 (UTC)
buffy-satsu-healing

Consider this scenario:

Satsu has been worshipping Buffy from afar for months, but has resigned herself to the fact that nothing will ever happen between them. It hurts her, but she's going to be noble about this.

Then she and Buffy spend the night together. All Satsu's dreams (and fantasies) have come true at once. And yet... she knows there's no future in this. She knows Buffy would never be satisfied with her: that she should be noble (again) and tell Buffy to find a man who can make her happy. Tell her this will never happen again. But she can't bring herself to say that. If there's the slightest chance that Buffy will sleep with her again, she's going to take it - even though she hates herself for being selfish and putting her own desires above Buffy's best interests.

Does that work?

Posted by: spikeNdru (spikendru)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 17:42 (UTC)
Buffy -Scythe matters

Well, since the only males currently in Buffy's life are Xander, Giles and Andrew, that doesn't give her much of a choice. However, I think there's something kinda squicky in Buffy having sex with a slayer who is under her control. Yes, I'm fairly sure Satsu initiated it, but still; Buffy is in a position of power over the newby slayers, and that feels squicky to me. Now Faith would be a different story.

Then again, I find 26+250 year old Angel and 15/16/17 year old Buffy squicky, too.

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 18:46 (UTC)
satsu

If Joss had wanted to pair her up with a man he would have written in some male OCs at the same time as he introduced Satsu, Leah, Renee and Rowena. :-)

I did wonder right at the start if they would want to look at the issues involved in one of the characters getting involved in a relationship with one of their 'subordinates' - although at the time I was thinking of Xander/Renee rather than Buffy/Satsu. But they seem to be playing that one straight. However, there was the scene in 8.04 where the other Slayers were bitching to Satsu about how Buffy picked her for the mission and what her motives were, so it's certainly possible they may explore the conflict of interest aspect more.

Then again, there's probably only a 4-year age gap between them (assuming Satsu was in her final year of high school in the flashback scene in #11), and Team Slayer is presumably not being run as a formal heirarchy with leaders and minions, since Buffy learned that lesson in S7... So there's not so much of a power imbalance.

Posted by: tessarin (tessarin)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 18:40 (UTC)

Commenting although I've given up reading. :-)

Voted obvious as Joss is never anything but predictable. Predicted B/X would be a tease as JW lacked the guts to go there. I mean canon straight character plus canon straight character.

What no way can Xander get the girl! Lets park him with a 2-d slayer also predicted from issue 1.

I mean he's the only guy available plus she's dreaming of him but no its much more in character to jump into bed with a Slayer who has only slightly been developed rather than her close friend who has been around and she's having sexy dreams of.

Still there was a risk so lets make Buffy repeat the lonley sleep with whose available storyline of S6. Now lets conduct a stunt and relegate Xander to the background.

The order new issues in reeks stunt.

Of course I would give Joss kudos if he dared to kill Satsu after she's betrayed Buffy. But I doubt he has the guts. Hopefully I'll eat my words though as I want him to get his groove back on for Dollhouse.

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 18:50 (UTC)

To me, putting together the two remaining characters who were on the TV show just for that reason would have been far cheaper, not to mention claustrophobic and incestuous. Joss has, apparently, created new love interests (or "love" interests) for both Buffy and Xander, and given the reactions I've seen around, I think that was a far braver thing to do.

And killing Satsu now would just be so predictable... even Joss is aware of his own reputation!

Posted by: tessarin (tessarin)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 19:58 (UTC)

Posted by: val_trepkos (val_trepkos)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 19:07 (UTC)

I fell like Buffy has had so many issues with the guys in her life, it seems quite logical that she might decide to try something different - clear her palate as it were. But I think, really, it's not them, it's her. I think she's basically a loner, and will find it very hard to give enough - or be prepared to accept enough - from anyone of either sex, to have a serious relationship which is satisfying for both parties.

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 21:27 (UTC)

I sort of agree, but there's also the fact that she has bad luck or bad timing a lot, and lots of outside distractons like looming apocalypses to take her attention...

Posted by: Trepkos (trepkos)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 21:58 (UTC)

Posted by: Barb (rahirah)
Posted at: 6th March 2008 01:20 (UTC)

Posted by: Trepkos (trepkos)
Posted at: 6th March 2008 07:59 (UTC)

Posted by: The Mezzanine (deird1)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 19:10 (UTC)

Well, I'm not reading the comics until the TPB are out, so I don't really know what led up to this. But it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other.
I'm reading them, but I don't really think of them as canon. So it doesn't affect my opinion of Buffy as a character.

Posted by: Katy (multishipper, no apologies) (secondalto)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 20:21 (UTC)

Here from su_herald link.

I'm kind of on the fence about it, it does seem in some regards to be desperation on Joss' part to get more readers, but if it's a plot he's had in mind from the beginning I'm willing to give him some wiggle room, but not much.

My overall peeve is that Buffy has to have a love interest at all. Can't she be a kick ass Slayer without a man or woman? Joss is fond of saying he likes to write strong women, so where is the evidence of that? Buffy can still be strong on her own and I'd like to see that played out in some way.

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 21:24 (UTC)
dollhouse

Hi! And given that Joss is in the middle of casting calls and scriptwriting for his new TV series, I don't think he'd be interested in cheap stunts to get more readers for his comic. Not to mention that the groundwork for this has been laid for the last year, with the kiss of true love business.

Although someone at Dark Horse Comics might have leaked the news instead, and that would be for the publicity.

As for your other point, the sense I always got of Buffy was that she was trying to have both; to be a strong leader and hero, and have a normal life as a normal person. It was kind of the theme of the show...

Posted by: Katy (multishipper, no apologies) (secondalto)
Posted at: 5th March 2008 21:27 (UTC)

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